He just won't lead!

[Marty McGee Bennett]

Hi Marty,
I have an 8 month old cria that I'm would
like to take to a show in 5 weeks. He's a friendly guy who greets me at
the gate and likes to eat the dangling hay off of my coat. He's done very
well with the touching techniques, really likes having his gums rubbed....
Stands totally still for a halter and seems completely unconcerned when I
attach a lead. But when I put ANY measure of pressure on the lead, he
drops to the ground. That lightbulb just isn't turning on. He just
has no clue what I want him to do.

I've been working with him for nearly three weeks (not every day, but
most) on leading with no results. The most I've accomplished is a single
step when I come at him from an angle rather than from the front before he
cushes. I've tried both of the side rings on the halter rather than the
bottom. I've tried bringing in another alpaca who leads well. Storm's
unimpressed. I've tried waiting him out when he cushes, but yesterday,
for example, I gave up after nearly 20 minutes and went to do other
things. I returned when he got back up another 10 minutes later, but he
dropped again when I tried the gentle tugs. After another 10 minutes, I
had to go make dinner. Yes, I've got balloon under my arms and eggs in my
hands, so I don't think that the tugs are too strong. I've tried being
close to him, and I've tried a long lead. I had my son try, thinking that
a different person might make a difference. Nope. I've even tried a more
open area than the usual catch pen, all to no avail. I'm starting to
think that he's retarded, but it's really probably me!

I'm out of ideas, and I'm afraid that all I've taught this sweet little
guy is that "when she attaches a lead, she wants me to lay down. Ok, I'll
play her game; my feet are tired anyway." Any suggestions that you could
give would be most welcome.

Thanks,
Cheryl

I think you are working with your boy for too long and are asking for too much at once. I would halter him up work on getting him to take one step quitting coming back later and having another really short lesson and quitting. I wouldn't work him every day but every other day and then for only about 5 minutes at one time. Try that strategy and see what happens.
marty

Hi Marty,

You may be right on the too long suggestion. I only work with him
everysecond or third day, but usually for much longer than five minutes
(mostof which is spend cushiing!) I've given him a break over the weekend,soI'll try a very short lesson this afternoon.

Remember 2 minutes of doing what you want is WAY
better than 20 minutes of doing what you don't want. Are you working
in a long narrow space? That will really help.
marty

On Sunday, I got him to walk both in the catch pen and all over the 1/2 acre pasturebby luring him with grain. I used light signals with no
problems, but I still don't think that he's making the connection between
the signals and walking.
Yesterday, I spent about 3 min. with him. He took one step right away
and then started to cush. I stepped toward him, and he stopped. I tried
again to get him to take a step, and he started to cush, but when I
stepped toward him, he stopped. Weird. Decided to be happy with the one
step and no cushing and stopped. Didn't use grain because I don't want to
make a habit of that either. We were in a catch pen. I've got a long
narrow aisle, but haven't tried it yet.

I'm not giving up! Even if he doesn't go to the show next month, there's
another in May. And shows aren't everything.

I would get him to that long narrow aisleway even if you have to herd him there. The shape of the pen is really helpful to get across to him what you want him to do. sounds like you are on the right track and you are right shows aren't everything.
Marty

epilogue: I was personally able to work with this young male at a clinic. He was a very laid back kind of alpaca and as soon as he wasn't sure of himself he just cushed. When I worked with him I was very animated and my activity kept him unsure about laying down. I also opened up the pen to a large area so that he would see that he had a place to go. He really got the idea and is now leading just fine.

[tfalpacas]

I have a female who just turned 1, she came to me halter trained. I have been working on halter training my other two younger girls. They are doing great. The yearling has now decided to cush everytime she is on the lead. She has been in 2 shows already and was fine. We are taking her to a show in less than 2 weeks, I can't get her to take more than a few steps on the lead. One day I ended up laying in the grass next to her until she got up. I just can't seem to get her to go. She is otherwise our sweetest most friendly girl. You can walk right up to her in the pasture and halter her, do anything. But lead Should I just let her be and pray she is good at the show?

[Marty McGee Bennett]

Alpacas that are very adorable in the field come right up and snuggle are the hardest to work with in the long run. They often lead quite nicely to start with but when they get old they begin this sort of behavior. The problem is that they have no respect for human leadership and often for humans in general. In males you often end up with an aggressive animal, this is what happens with females and it could get worse in terms of spitting and other forms of acting out. I would leave her alone and just take her to the show perhaps she will do fine there. Bottom line there is not much you can do at home that will insure that she is better at the show and it sounds like she has been shown before and knows what to expect. If she keeps acting out at home you are only going to reinforce what you don't want and get her more in the habit of kushing and by picking up her back end you may ultimately teach her to start spitting. I would recommend just getting her there and do the best you can. If she doesn't do well and won't cooperate you may be looking at the end of her show career. Make sure that her halter is fitted correctly and double check that you understand halter fit. Many people think they do and don't. I readjust Zephyr halters all the time at shows and people thought they knew how to adjust them. Use a long lead with her and use very very light signals to ask her to come forward. If you do get her up and going perhaps a few intersting obstacles may help. Luckily she is a girl and her breeding career will commence soon. Sorry I don't have much more to offer.

[marcellapj]

Hello All,

I am a complete and utter novice on all accounts with camelids. I had no pets growing up and have had two dogs my entire life, all during adulthood. I never had a pony or any other livestock ever. We just got our first 4 male alpacas this past September 2009 after researching about them on and off for the prior year through the internet and by enquiring with a local breeder. Two of our alpacas are 2 ½ years old wethers and the younger pair have just past their first birthday…..will be wethered after they pass 18 months of age. Both sets come from two different homes. I suspect the older pair were man handled a bit (arrived with halters far too low on their noses and the prior owner told me to “let them know who’s the boss” when I handle them in our holding pin. No judgment intended, just the old conventional handling method I suppose).

I describe the extent of my inexperience for a reason. The minute our alpacas arrived is about the same minute our Camelid Companion book arrived (thank goodness!). So no one was allowed to do anything but feed them out of our hands until I read the book almost twice. I used to be a nurse practitioner and am accustomed to reading about performing procedures on another live being, and then having to go and actually do it. Empathy is the hallmark of nursing in general, so the book struck a real chord in me. I have followed it to the letter and started working with my four boys a month after they arrived, going on 2 months now.

With all of that said about my lack of camelid handling experience, I may have a helpful suggestion for getting a cushed alpaca uncushed while trying to train on the lead. Keeping in mind of course that there may be a glaring reason why this was a bad idea. All I know is that it has worked well in my situation and might help you. But Marty and all your other more experienced folks, feel free to let me know if I was doing something wrong.

My sole black alpaca is the one I suspect had a hard time in his past. He is naturally more cautious and less trusting, and those innate characteristics are probably what resulted in him having to be man handled more often by his past owners to get things done in the old conventional way. It took ages for him to develop any trust with us, well at least compared to our other three alpacas. I knew immediately that I would need a second chance halter for him and haven’t approached him with anything else. If I were to use negative labels, he would be the “kicker”, the “spitter”, the “cusher”, etc. But as the book explains, I chose instead to think of him as being the boy who would teach me the most. And I have to say, I think he has

Since this is about leading, I will leave out the details of what halter training him was like. Suffice it to say, he was the most difficult of the four and I had to say the words “breeeaatthe” out loud to myself when I got in the catch pin with him for weeks to keep myself breathing. Then when I got to leading, he DID NOT LIKE IT and cushed almost immediately. At first I just sat next to him and hung out. But it didn’t take long for me to realize that he could out last me and run the clock down so training time for everyone would be greatly diminished. Then I thought, “well seems like a good time to practice my Ttouches”. He really never seemed to enjoy Ttouching on his head or ear work during halter training, but as I practiced on him while he was cushed, he began to get those melty droopy eye lids and I realized, “uh oh, if he likes this then I am teaching him to cush every time he wants to good head/ear massage”. So I decided to try abalone Ttouching along his sides/shoulders/heading toward his rear end, even checked his body score. As I approached his rear, he spat at me. I just treated him like a human toddler and I completely ignored the spit on all fronts. I carried on as if he had done nothing. My thinking was that his spittiing would end up being useless to him…..just like tantrums with toddlers…..if I completely and utterly ignored it. So I carried on with the body work. As soon as I could tell he was getting up, I said the word, “UP” happily. I tried a bit more with the lead and he cushed again. I started with his head and slowly worked my way toward his rear but this time I thought I could use some practice working the tail too. I did it exactly as the book said, and of course got spat on again but completely ignored it and continued to gently work his tail. I was about at the second pearly bead down his tale when he got up again and of course I said “UP” simultaneously. The first session he must have cushed 4 times. Then during the following training sessions, he cushed less and less. I eventually left much of the forward body work out and gently went straight to work on his tail immediately after he cushed, each time saying “UP” happily when I knew he was heading up. As the sessions have progressed, I could see him starting to bend his knees toward a cush, and then change his mind and stand up again. Now he does not cush and does not spit at all…..yippee! I feel I have completely disempowered his spitting all together as it has zero effect on my behavior…..the training continues with spit or no spit, just the same. Recently, I just took him for a walk out of the catch pin and aisleway, down our driveway and he led like a complete angel….although I lead him only from the right side, like his halter. This took about 5-6 lead training sessions in total (I train every other day) for him to stop cushing, but it diminished almost immediately after the first session. In the meanwhile, his behavior in general has greatly improved. He kicks less, he comes right up to us for alpaca nuts in the catch pin (the only place they get their treats - he used to only observe the others eating from outside the entire holding pin), and seems in general much more at ease…..he is an eye wrinkler and I can tell that his ease has increased because his eyes don’t wrinkle half as much as they used to. His flight zone around us has decreased too, both in and out of the catch pin . By the way, his name is Vader.

One of my younger boys, named Moe, also occasionally cushed during lead training, although not at all as much as Vader. I used what I learned from Vader on Moe, and also gently started tail work. Moe gets up a lot quicker and I use the same “UP” as he does it. Now even when one of my other boys are cushed while relaxing and waiting their turn for training around the holding pin and I need them to move so I can open the gate of my catch pin, I gently put both hands on each side of their hips, and say “UP!” And you know what, it works 100% of the time

So hang in there with the difficult ones. My experience has shown me how much they really can teach us….or me at least. Vader has come such a long way in a relatively short amount of time and taught me HEAPS by being different and harder to figure out than the rest.

Hope it helps (and wasn’t a complete blunder)!
Cheers,
Marcie

[rose@almapark.com]

Marci - good job for sticking with him and allowing him to become comfortable around and with you. In my opinion, I think you did a fine job! Congrats!!

One question - did you use the 2nd chance halter because you could not halter him from the left?

Rose

[Kotare]

Velvet, my four year old girl is pregnant for the first time. She is a dream to halter..... stands calmly... doesn't fuss.
However she has suddenly started to refuse to lead....will not budge.She used to lead well although always a bit nervous leaving the others. She doesn't kick or spit, just 'plants'
I'm in two minds whether to continue trying or leave it until she is no longer pregnant.
I recently sold some of my herd and it included the dam Velvet did rely on so maybe that is it ?
Should I try taking Franco a small wether who goes anyway with Velvet ?
I don't want to make Velvet resistant to haltering ..... there is no need to lead her... it is just to give her some exercise and a change of scene.
Thanks
Amanda

[marcellapj]

Hi Rose,

Vader's behavior was always more guarded than the rest and so I only ever used a second chance halter with him. It was just a hunch but I figured I could use all advantage I could get! Also I thought a second chance halter would be a good thing to have in my tool box so when I bought all my gear, I got one for him. It's been good for me too because now I feel comfortable getting both types of halters on, and also leading from both sides. I am strongly a right handed person and would not have naturally tried it if not for my sitaution with Vader.

By the way, I am still working with my two yearlings on leading in the aisleway. They are catching on but more slowly than I imagined (the haltering went quicker than I expected, so I thought the leading would too). I started to do what Marty said above, make each lesson shorter and stop almost as soon as I get a few good steps out of them. That has slowly become a few walks up and down the length of our aisleway and I think I can see the glimmer of a light bulb starting to glow over their heads , so it is working. But one thing that also helped alot is switching the side I lead from. I have tried it with two leads on each side of the face and it doesn't seem to work as well for me as switching the side I lead from all together.....probably because I am such a novice. So maybe that is worth trying with the pregnant and the one year old females above. Try leading from the other side and see what happens. Like the book says, "if it isn't working, change it." I started doing it with my kids and husband too.....ha, ha!.....and it seems to work with them as well!

Cheers,
Marcie

[Marty McGee Bennett]

I thought I would lob in with some general comments about leading.
I don't generally use a wand or two leads until I am out of the aisle way. I usually have 3 maybe 4 lessons in the aisle way before leaving to a pasture. If possible the first time out of the aisle way could be near the aisle way. There is a pretty detailed article on leading that updates the Camelid Companion in the guild library
here
http://www.camelidynamicsguild.com/g...ght=thumbelina
I avoid if I can leading animals together at the start because my experience is that they get very bonded to leading with another animal and it can be harder to lead them alone. Starting animals by having them lead with another animal doesn't teach them to lead with a person at all really they only walk alongside another animal.