Marty McGee Bennett
08-07-2005, 07:49 PM
I'm wondering if I can toss out a question to you about a behavior that is puzzling me. It's not a handling issue (your methods work, and we're doing fine!), but
a behavior I haven't experienced, previously, and I am not sure as to
what the best way is to handle it.
Our two dams are sharing a paddock with their 4-month old crias,
both
females. Margarita is Angelina's mother, and Hazel is Ananda's
mother. Although Margi is nursing Ananda just fine, Ananda has been
"double dipping" and nursing from Hazel, as well, when she sees
Angelina nursing. If she is not right by her own mother's side, at
that time, she just takes the initiative to go to "Angelina's house"
for a snack. But that's not the problem. Margarita is an alpha
personality. It appears that her daughter is, too. Hazel is sweet
and gentle, very kind and low key. Margi is not nice to her, and
Margi has been absolutely horrible to Angelina, Hazel's daughter. I
get the impression that she has taught her daughter, by example, to
be disrespectful of Hazel, who is so kind to her. I have caught Ananda
attacking Hazel. She bites at Hazel's back (pulling fiber out) and
neck wrestles with her. Hazel spits at her, in an attempt to make her
go away. Hazel is very petite. Ananda is like her mother, who is
tall. So Ananda is getting big. I'm very upset at this behavior. I
feel I should separate them. But if I separate them, here's what
would happen: Right now, both dams and crias are together. The crias
have each other to play with. If I separate them, the only thing I
can do is put Margarita and Ananda in the third paddock, where I've
got two llamas and the alpaca girls born in 2002. So I would bring those two alpaca girls into the middle paddock, with Hazel and Angelina, and Margi and Ananda would be sent to live with the llamas. I worry that the llamas, while teaching the precocious little Ananda some manners, might react to her aggressively, since she has an"attitude." But I don't know that, for sure. And, I would be separating the two little ones who have had each other for company. Ananda would now have no one to play with, and Angelina would be in the same boat.
Do you have any thoughts about this, Marty? I could really use some
perspective. Since I'm not out there 24/7, I can't get in the
middle each time Ananda starts in on Hazel. I honestly don't know what to
do. I can't build an additional paddock, right now.
Any advice you could give me would be very much appreciated.
As far as your group goes have
you thought about putting everyone together? All the alpacas and the
llamas? I think they would all benefit from being in a bigger group
and it should change the dynamic between Ananda and Hazel. If you can
combine the groups it may solve the problem. It would be a shame to
separate the two babies and I would trust unless Hazel is losing
weight or getting injured my tendency would be to leave things as is as a
second choice.
Gosh, I had not thought about putting everyone together, but it's definitely worth trying! All I really have to do is remove the partition in the shelter and let everyone move to the other side, then close the partition at the far end. That would ALSO solve a secondary problem: We are going to be bringing in a second Great Pyr puppy, a buddy for Anton, and I didn't have a safe, "camelid-proof" place for the two dogs to be, to get away from the big guys. That would return that far paddock to a private doggie apartment, for the time being. COOL! I'll try it! Thank you so much!
I am glad that idea appeals I think your animals will like it better too. It should put less pressure on everyone to have more individuals to relate to.
Everyone is now together (except the boys, who are
jealous), and it seems to be working well. Shoshi and Shira were very
excited to be with their mothers again, and the little monsters didn't
stop running all over the place. The llamas are perplexed, not quite
sure as to what is going on. Anton is king of the tent now, parking
himself in the middle of the traffic pattern. I'm hoping that Ananda
will now be too busy to harrass Hazel anymore. Thank you for the
help, Marty. I would never have thought of it.
Just a note to tell you how WONDERFUL things are in the paddocks! Your idea is working beautifully, and everyone is living together as "one herd." It's just amazing, the difference this change made. I learned a lot about what a herd is supposed to be, as it is there, right before my eyes.
Our little "princess," Ananda, has been put on notice (by the llamas) that she can consider herself "dethroned." She's back to being a cria again, a very healthy change. Hazel has some peace from her, although she doesn't have a dominant personality, so Margarita still gives her grief. But Hazel will now, at least, keep her fiber on her body!
It is a fantastic change for everyone, and I thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.
a behavior I haven't experienced, previously, and I am not sure as to
what the best way is to handle it.
Our two dams are sharing a paddock with their 4-month old crias,
both
females. Margarita is Angelina's mother, and Hazel is Ananda's
mother. Although Margi is nursing Ananda just fine, Ananda has been
"double dipping" and nursing from Hazel, as well, when she sees
Angelina nursing. If she is not right by her own mother's side, at
that time, she just takes the initiative to go to "Angelina's house"
for a snack. But that's not the problem. Margarita is an alpha
personality. It appears that her daughter is, too. Hazel is sweet
and gentle, very kind and low key. Margi is not nice to her, and
Margi has been absolutely horrible to Angelina, Hazel's daughter. I
get the impression that she has taught her daughter, by example, to
be disrespectful of Hazel, who is so kind to her. I have caught Ananda
attacking Hazel. She bites at Hazel's back (pulling fiber out) and
neck wrestles with her. Hazel spits at her, in an attempt to make her
go away. Hazel is very petite. Ananda is like her mother, who is
tall. So Ananda is getting big. I'm very upset at this behavior. I
feel I should separate them. But if I separate them, here's what
would happen: Right now, both dams and crias are together. The crias
have each other to play with. If I separate them, the only thing I
can do is put Margarita and Ananda in the third paddock, where I've
got two llamas and the alpaca girls born in 2002. So I would bring those two alpaca girls into the middle paddock, with Hazel and Angelina, and Margi and Ananda would be sent to live with the llamas. I worry that the llamas, while teaching the precocious little Ananda some manners, might react to her aggressively, since she has an"attitude." But I don't know that, for sure. And, I would be separating the two little ones who have had each other for company. Ananda would now have no one to play with, and Angelina would be in the same boat.
Do you have any thoughts about this, Marty? I could really use some
perspective. Since I'm not out there 24/7, I can't get in the
middle each time Ananda starts in on Hazel. I honestly don't know what to
do. I can't build an additional paddock, right now.
Any advice you could give me would be very much appreciated.
As far as your group goes have
you thought about putting everyone together? All the alpacas and the
llamas? I think they would all benefit from being in a bigger group
and it should change the dynamic between Ananda and Hazel. If you can
combine the groups it may solve the problem. It would be a shame to
separate the two babies and I would trust unless Hazel is losing
weight or getting injured my tendency would be to leave things as is as a
second choice.
Gosh, I had not thought about putting everyone together, but it's definitely worth trying! All I really have to do is remove the partition in the shelter and let everyone move to the other side, then close the partition at the far end. That would ALSO solve a secondary problem: We are going to be bringing in a second Great Pyr puppy, a buddy for Anton, and I didn't have a safe, "camelid-proof" place for the two dogs to be, to get away from the big guys. That would return that far paddock to a private doggie apartment, for the time being. COOL! I'll try it! Thank you so much!
I am glad that idea appeals I think your animals will like it better too. It should put less pressure on everyone to have more individuals to relate to.
Everyone is now together (except the boys, who are
jealous), and it seems to be working well. Shoshi and Shira were very
excited to be with their mothers again, and the little monsters didn't
stop running all over the place. The llamas are perplexed, not quite
sure as to what is going on. Anton is king of the tent now, parking
himself in the middle of the traffic pattern. I'm hoping that Ananda
will now be too busy to harrass Hazel anymore. Thank you for the
help, Marty. I would never have thought of it.
Just a note to tell you how WONDERFUL things are in the paddocks! Your idea is working beautifully, and everyone is living together as "one herd." It's just amazing, the difference this change made. I learned a lot about what a herd is supposed to be, as it is there, right before my eyes.
Our little "princess," Ananda, has been put on notice (by the llamas) that she can consider herself "dethroned." She's back to being a cria again, a very healthy change. Hazel has some peace from her, although she doesn't have a dominant personality, so Margarita still gives her grief. But Hazel will now, at least, keep her fiber on her body!
It is a fantastic change for everyone, and I thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.