Marty McGee Bennett
08-07-2005, 07:16 PM
I seek your advice on a problem we have with a male llama.* We have
raised*llamas for about 8 years and feel like we have a pretty good
repoire with our animals.* I am familiar with and respect your method.
*
Three years ago we purchased a male llama.* He was three years old and*had*never bred.* He is a really big
guy.* Our intent was for this male,*to become our junior
herdsire.* Our current herdsire is very calm and very much a
"gentleman" with the ladies.* Our problem:* When we introduced this new young male to
our females, he was and still is totally obnoxious!* He chest butts,
body slams, bites the females.* It is as if we put him in the ring
with another male!* The fight is on.* The females do fight back and,
needless to say, after two minutes in the pen with this male, the
females are certainly not in the mood for any hanky panky.* We
realized that this "breeding process" was "new" to him and we've
tried several things, such as:
*
1.*** Walking him (on lead) side by side with females to get him
accustomed to the girls.* He did fine with this, but it didn't change
things once they were "together".
*
2.*** My husband and I introduced females to him (both on lead ropes)
to try to avoid any fighting.* Well, after we wiped the spit off of us
- we were no longer in the mood.
*
3.** As a last result, we*attempted to mildly sedate the male
(Resuce Remedy).* I don't feel comfortable with the use of any type of drugs (natural or otherwise) for THIS cause and besides it may have made
him "unable to perform".* Although, he still made the females mad and
then he just wasn't interested in them.*
*
Both of our males are in pens side by side.* And, each time we have
attempted breeding to this new guy - we have brought the females
into*HIS pen (his territory).* The females are all in an open
pasture.* We have thought about letting him loose in the pasture with
the females - but I worry that he might hurt one of my girls and then
we may not be able to catch him.* As I mentioned, he is a big guy and
he has sent one female away limping.
*
Can you give us other suggestions?* I keep thinking if he will just
breed successfully one time - he will then understand how it works.*
But, I*don't know if you can TEACH a male to be a gentleman.** He is a
nice looking male and we would really like to breed him.* He is not
aggresive at all with humans.* I've shown him and once haltered he is
very well mannered but with the girls it's another story.* He is an
advanced pack llama, maybe we should just geld him but I want to try
everything possible before doing that.*
*
Thanks for any advice.
I was going to suggest giving him just a little bit of ace
promazine but since you are reluctant to use any drugs forget that, I
think the place you are breeding him is the problem. Is there a way to
trailer your boy and a really obliging experienced female to a neutral
place? Or do you have a place on your farm that is away from the other
male? I understand from your email that your males are next to each
other but are not housed together? I think this is the problem. They
trade silent (maybe not so silent insults) across the fence and he is
itching to fight that male and can't, then, when you put a female in
with him fighting is all he can think of particularly when the other
male is right there watching. I think you are right once he breeds
successfully once the problem will be over. Although there are males
that would rather patrol a fence and protect territory than breed an
open female standing patiently in their paddock.
Ideally I would take him away from that male and put him somewhere away
from his paddock to breed. The other thing that might clarify things
is to let the two males live together- if you are willing to do that.
Then he wouldn't have all that pent up fighting frustration when he
finally gets around another llama. Hope that helps.
I think you hit the nail on the head with "he is itching to fight the other male" so the females pay the price. We have a small pasture area that we could move the male to. He could still SEE the other male but he wouldn't be so close to him. He would be in an open pasture next to the females. We will move him to this new area for the next couple of months (before breeding season) and see if it helps. On the other hand, maybe they need to fight and get it over with and out of their system, as you suggest. I would just be sick if one hurt the other badly. We have never housed two breeding males together because we've seen two males fight that accidentally got together and we thought they were going to kill each other. I'm sure on large farms/ranches that it is common to run breeding males together, but our place is very small. If moving him doesn't help - I'm willing to try the ace. Thanks for your suggestions.
raised*llamas for about 8 years and feel like we have a pretty good
repoire with our animals.* I am familiar with and respect your method.
*
Three years ago we purchased a male llama.* He was three years old and*had*never bred.* He is a really big
guy.* Our intent was for this male,*to become our junior
herdsire.* Our current herdsire is very calm and very much a
"gentleman" with the ladies.* Our problem:* When we introduced this new young male to
our females, he was and still is totally obnoxious!* He chest butts,
body slams, bites the females.* It is as if we put him in the ring
with another male!* The fight is on.* The females do fight back and,
needless to say, after two minutes in the pen with this male, the
females are certainly not in the mood for any hanky panky.* We
realized that this "breeding process" was "new" to him and we've
tried several things, such as:
*
1.*** Walking him (on lead) side by side with females to get him
accustomed to the girls.* He did fine with this, but it didn't change
things once they were "together".
*
2.*** My husband and I introduced females to him (both on lead ropes)
to try to avoid any fighting.* Well, after we wiped the spit off of us
- we were no longer in the mood.
*
3.** As a last result, we*attempted to mildly sedate the male
(Resuce Remedy).* I don't feel comfortable with the use of any type of drugs (natural or otherwise) for THIS cause and besides it may have made
him "unable to perform".* Although, he still made the females mad and
then he just wasn't interested in them.*
*
Both of our males are in pens side by side.* And, each time we have
attempted breeding to this new guy - we have brought the females
into*HIS pen (his territory).* The females are all in an open
pasture.* We have thought about letting him loose in the pasture with
the females - but I worry that he might hurt one of my girls and then
we may not be able to catch him.* As I mentioned, he is a big guy and
he has sent one female away limping.
*
Can you give us other suggestions?* I keep thinking if he will just
breed successfully one time - he will then understand how it works.*
But, I*don't know if you can TEACH a male to be a gentleman.** He is a
nice looking male and we would really like to breed him.* He is not
aggresive at all with humans.* I've shown him and once haltered he is
very well mannered but with the girls it's another story.* He is an
advanced pack llama, maybe we should just geld him but I want to try
everything possible before doing that.*
*
Thanks for any advice.
I was going to suggest giving him just a little bit of ace
promazine but since you are reluctant to use any drugs forget that, I
think the place you are breeding him is the problem. Is there a way to
trailer your boy and a really obliging experienced female to a neutral
place? Or do you have a place on your farm that is away from the other
male? I understand from your email that your males are next to each
other but are not housed together? I think this is the problem. They
trade silent (maybe not so silent insults) across the fence and he is
itching to fight that male and can't, then, when you put a female in
with him fighting is all he can think of particularly when the other
male is right there watching. I think you are right once he breeds
successfully once the problem will be over. Although there are males
that would rather patrol a fence and protect territory than breed an
open female standing patiently in their paddock.
Ideally I would take him away from that male and put him somewhere away
from his paddock to breed. The other thing that might clarify things
is to let the two males live together- if you are willing to do that.
Then he wouldn't have all that pent up fighting frustration when he
finally gets around another llama. Hope that helps.
I think you hit the nail on the head with "he is itching to fight the other male" so the females pay the price. We have a small pasture area that we could move the male to. He could still SEE the other male but he wouldn't be so close to him. He would be in an open pasture next to the females. We will move him to this new area for the next couple of months (before breeding season) and see if it helps. On the other hand, maybe they need to fight and get it over with and out of their system, as you suggest. I would just be sick if one hurt the other badly. We have never housed two breeding males together because we've seen two males fight that accidentally got together and we thought they were going to kill each other. I'm sure on large farms/ranches that it is common to run breeding males together, but our place is very small. If moving him doesn't help - I'm willing to try the ace. Thanks for your suggestions.