Rescued llama- skin problems

[VSpyder643]

Hi there!

We are fairly new to llamas, having just got our first 3 recently. We are learning and trying to do everything right for our new girls- we are so happy to stumbled upon the camelidynamics method several months ago and it has absolutely changed our relationships with our llamas!

Onto our current problem: Our neighbor has had a llama for 4 years- she has essentially been totally neglected except for providing food and water (which unfortunately is all you need to do to be in compliance as far as caring for your livestock around here). This poor girl hasn't been sheared in many years. A couple of days ago, the neighbor came by and said "our llama is a pain to deal with, we can't catch her and we don't want to deal with her- so you can have her if you want her." We weren't planning on adding another llama, but this poor girl has been wasting away over there since we moved in a few years ago and we jumped at the chance to take her and get her the care she needs.

We were pleasantly surprised that once we got her in a catch pen, she is an absolute sweetheart!! Gives kisses, leads fairly well, and is fairly easy to halter (the neighbors had no clue that they needed a catch pen- they just chase her around 'till she tires, I guess).

Long story short, we got her here and first thing we did was get the scissors and start cutting out the mats- it's starting to get warm and we don't want her overheating. Once we got all the fiber cut off (filled an extra large hefty yard bag to the brim), we notice that she has some areas on her belly that are bald, whitish/ grey, scaling, and several areas that look 'lumpy'. By that point, she didn't want me messing with her belly, so I do not know if they are hard or fluid-filled. This girl has only had access to goat mineral, so I am not sure if this could be some type of deficency? We had some dectomax on hand, so we gave her that, as we thought it was possible it could be mange.

We are feeling a bit over our heads here, but she is so sweet and deserving of help that we are trying our best. If anyone has any ideas about the areas of missing hair/scaling on the belly or swollen spots, that would be great. The only vet in the area doesn't do much with llamas beyond vaccinations/worming, so we are looking for advice.

I've attached pictures of her belly, plus one of her with her new haircut! (Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to take a pic before we sheared her)
Thanks for any advice/help! :-)
Jane

[rose@almapark.com]

Jane - she is quite a pretty lady and here's to you for giving her a home she deserves!!

It is hard to tell from the pics if those areas are callouses or cysts or something else like mange. . . can you get a feel of them and let us know what they feel like?

Rose

[Marty McGee Bennett]

you are sure to get loads of good karma for this act of kindness! I have no idea what you might be dealing with... have you thought of a vet visit? You might also start out with doing a fecal and make sure she doesn't have anything that would present a danger to the rest of your animals and then worm based on the fecal and see if a little TLC will help her body deal with the rest. It might not be a bad idea to shear a bit more over time to really get her skin exposed to the fresh air.
I am so glad you are finding Camelidynamics helpful it is so nice that this is a sweet llama what a good turn you did for her!

[VSpyder643]

Thanks so much for the help...

Unfortunately, the only mobile vet near us isn't very knowledgeable- the next closest place is quite a drive, and honestly quite expensive. I hate that money is an issue, but we just dealt with another unrelated issue, so if we can get this girl better without a costly trip to the vet, it would be ideal. (Obviously I would prefer to just take her in and get it figured out and fixed, but as I said, we weren't planning on adding another llama- but when the neighbors said come get her, there was no way we could leave her there wasting away.). Obviously if it doesn't improve or gets worse, we will bite the bullet and get her into the vet- we want this girl healthy and happy! We will definitely get a fecal done ASAP. We don't generally worm without cause, but we kinda freaked out when we saw the spots on her belly and made a quick decision just to do it in case it is mites. I know that's not advisable in general.

We wanted to shear more off, but we were careful not to upset her too much- we worked for almost 2 hours, and at that point she was getting nervous and we didn't want to push it, so once she settles in a bit, we will take as much fiber off as we can- there is so much fecal matter/sticks/leaves/twigs/clods of dirt in the fiber, I would prefer to just do a full body shear and start over with her. And it's been a very rainy winter and spring, so I wonder if the skin issue is being exacerbated by all matted fiber holding the moisture against the skin.

I will try and get a feel of the lumps to see if they are hard or soft and let you know. I am hoping some TLC, proper diet and shearing will help sort a lot of this out. She seems in good shape otherwise (and is obviously a survivor since she's been without any care except for gross poor quality cow hay and goat mineral for the past 4 years!!).

I appreciate the help! :-)
Jane

[docdennis]

These lesions don't look like anything "typical" to me. Of course the fastest way to a diagnosis is with a skin biopsy.
If they are not oozing and they are not terribly itchy to her, a conservative approach that involves allowing her time for her whole body to get stronger is a reasonable approach.
I would just get her shorn, lower neck, body, upper legs, get it all off. She'll be a little stressed out (this is where Marty's techniques come in to reduce stress) but then you'll be done with it and she can start to heal.
I like tea tree cream/lotion for most skin things and would apply that daily to her lesions. A good scrubbing bath once per day for 5 days using a tea tree shampoo would also likely help. Many camelids enjoy being soaked with a hose.
Goat minerals are a reasonable substitute for camelid minerals. It may help to be on camelid minerals now. I"m sure she'll appreciate better hay. It is noteable however that an adult llama/alpaca can maintain pretty well on what we consider a "poor" diet. That's how their systems are designed. It's when you add the stresses of lactation and pregnancy that the nutrient requirements go up considerably.

If these lumps break open and have pus inside I would want to get it cultured for the bacteria that causes Caseous lymphadenitis. I'd advise shearing the other ones first, her last, to avoid clipper contamination.

Dennis

[VSpyder643]

We will go ahead and get the rest of the wool off of her. Can you tell me anything else about CL? She was housed with goats before, and is now with our llamas and 4 pet sheep. I am terrified that we've brought something terrible into our herd now that I've done a bit of reading on CL. :(

If it is CL, is there anything we can do to try and prevent our other girls from getting it? I feel so bad that our other animals may have been exposed.

Thanks so much for any help/advice.

[Marty McGee Bennett]

There is quite a bit on the forum about CL in alpacas. http://www.camelidynamicsguild.com/guildForum/showthread.php?t=1249&highlight=CaseousYou might want to read up about it. In any case if you haven't quarantined her it might be a good idea to separate her along with another animal... at least that way you minimize your risk to only one other animal clean up the area she has been in really well, and wait and see what happens with the lumps.

[VSpyder643]

Okay, we will get her separated with one other friend asap and then get everything disinfected. We will get her to the vet's as well- we want to know for sure whats going on.

How should we go about disinfecting our main barn? Bleach solution? I'm guessing there's nothing to do about the pasture that she's been all over as far as disinfecting- or is there something we can spray? There's no oozing or anything, so hopefully there hasn't been too much contagious matter spread around so far. It seems like most of the information I've read says that it's when the abscesses break open that most of the spread occurs... Hopefully the rest of our babies will be okay!

Thank you so much for all of the help. Hopefully the vet can help us figure this out- in the meantime we are keeping our fingers crossed that it's something else!

[rose@almapark.com]

CL is contagious only if the abscess bursts. Since she was housed with goats, there is a possibility of CL, but no need to panic yet! I have experience with CL in goats, but have not seen it in alpaca/llama - so this is my take on it. Again - I am NOT a vet :)

Go and feel the lumps, CL lumps are rather "mushy". The lumps in the pics look more calloused. When a CL lump bursts, it doesn't callous over, but rather deflates like a balloon.

Disinfectant to use is chlorhexidine, it is a blue liquid and specifically made for livestock etc. You can get it at ValleyVet, Jeffers, TSC etc.

You can separate her until you get a culture, but please go and feel and try to get a better pic and report back - :)

Don't get upset, you did a great thing !!

Rose

[docdennis]

Rose is right-on with her advice. I was commenting on what I could see from the pictures and felt that I had to at least mention CL. I have seen it in alpacas. It was more of a widespread undermining infection of the skin than distinct abscesses.
CL abscesses are usually soft.
Environmental or other animal contamination will be minimal to nonexistent unless/until the abscesses (if they really are abscesses) break open.
You will need to get your hands on them to get a better sense of if they are thickened skin or abscesses. If abscesses, bacterial culture would be a good idea. She would definitely need to be quarantined after that because the process of obtaining the sample would then leave a draining abscess.

Dennis

[Nancy Woodward]

Wow! This chain of communications is exactly why I LOVE CameliDynamics and the Guild. The warmth and support being shown here by everyone involved is representative of the true, heartfelt delights of being a member. We all love our camelids deeply, and this kind of dialogue is about us all being part of an amazing community--one of the great reasons for being in this biz.

I remember, at my first seminar, thinking I had my money's worth in the first ten minutes--and that's the truth--but this web site is truly the ongoing support that helps me every day of my life with our beloved llamas and alpacas.

Thank you. I look forward to hearing how all this turns out!

[Marty McGee Bennett]

Nancy your enthusiasm and love for your animals is a thing of beauty thanks for your participation and dedication you are a real asset to our group.