"Don't touch my nails!"

[Paulette Kaskinen]

I've been working with Pablo and the toilet brush, trying to get to the point where I can trim his nails on the ground, and I was excited that he was willing to let me touch them with the nippers, but we have not been able to progress beyond that. Yesterday, as usual, I used the brush to brush his neck, which he enjoys, and he even asked for me to brush a part of his back near the rear, which he hasn't done before, but when I worked my way down and brushed his feet and nails, he got anxious and started to shift his feet. The nails on the front are actually growing towards the middle, and I'm wondering if it is time to consider having help from the vet on this one. His breeder tells me he has always tended to cush in the chute, and he has demonstrated this with me as well. Of course we will keep working on it, I just wasn't sure when to ask for help.

Would love to hear what you think!

Thanks,

Paulette

[Marty McGee Bennett]

These tonails are long but not dangerously so... have you tried putting Pablo in a small space with someone holding a bowl of grain or alfalfa leave for him to much on and you trim off what you can while the feet are on the ground? Alternatively you might consider having the vet out, having him sedated give them a really good trim and then continue working towards not having to do that next time.

[Paulette Kaskinen]

I will try with the bowl of grain and see what he does - previously he has also seemed very anxious in spaces smaller than the catch pen (which is kind of large, 10 x 10), and when he feels confined he drops like a rock. I would so much rather have us able to do it, but if that doesn't fly will look at having the vet out - the last time they were trimmed was during an unpleasant shearing experience, and I would way rather have him sedated than put him through a toenail trauma. I guess a part of me feels like a bad mom since I haven't been able to get it done...:(

[Marty McGee Bennett]

so you might try trimming with grain and helper on the ground in a catch pen and see what happens. You can herd him in the catch pen offer a bowl attached to a side of the pen and just begin with the toilet brush and then work towards touching his toes... the other suggestion is to use a clicker and something that he really loves and approach the whole thing from a clicker point of view instead of using the grain simply as a distraction. Read up on the clicker training page. He is so smart and it would be way fun to approach it that way. You are NOT a bad mom!

[NinaFaust]

No, you are not a bad mom! I went through this with my alpacas. The big breakthrough happened when I started using clicker training to get them to understand I wanted to work with the feet. Well worth trying. You are certainly making progress. Keep up the good effort.

[Paulette Kaskinen]

My guess is that ultimately the clicker training would get us further, with more fun for Pablo - as you say, he is very smart, in fact it seems like all I have to do is think about his feet and he can hear me from across the pasture. I will do more reading up on that and work on finding a food that would work for him - he doesn't want pellets, and loose alfalfa is kind of difficult to keep him from scarfing up the whole dish of it in a single bite.

Thanks for the support!

(Ooh, gonna be down in the teens here in a couple days...)

[NinaFaust]

Yes, it will be more fun for you both, and your relationship will change. Hopefully, by the time the clicker training has gotten you to the point where you can do what you need to do, it will be warmer. Cutting nails when it is that cold is hard--the nails are tougher and your hands freeze. I try to wait till the temps are a bit warmer, but sometimes, I have no choice. Keep at it--it will be way worth it!

[Nancy Woodward]

First off, I really want to be in the advanced training--I need the refresher! including clicker training with Dr. Susan Brown.

Yesterday we trimmed toes on 22 alpacas, after which I was exhausted and wondering if some of them would ever come to me again: not one of my prouder moments! My alpacas were all over the map as regards cooperation. Some older ones who had been mishandled in the past, but not by me, have become gracious and grateful--I did learn enough back in 2005 to avoid inflicting pain, and some of them have learned to trust me on that.
Others have not, and one of the very most difficult was a lady I bottle raised. For Lorelei's fear of having her feet picked up, there is nooone to blame but myself!

( Lorelei is an interesting alpaca: when she was 3 months old, another mother graciously adopted her, and after that, Lorelei wanted absolutely nothing to do with me! I let her have her way, and stilll think that was correct, but she is now very aloof. After the battle royal to get her toes trimmed, I thought I'd really blown it--except, today, she came up and greeted me for the first time in many months. I think the TTouch afterwards helped--too bad I didn't do that first!!!)

My mentor, Dr. Joan Davies, had some alpacas that stood as nicely as my horses. She attributed this to handling legs of crias frequently. The long handled brush technique helps in desensitising their little legs. My own crias and yearlings did do well. My helper, who is also a client, grasped the thought that acquainting his own crias with having feet and legs handled would be a good idea.

In any event, I have decided I have too many alpacas to manage as I wish to manage them: I have given in way too often to expedience in accomplishing chores, and wish to get back to sheer pleasure and handling that I can be proud of. Time to reduce my numbers--and to go to Bend for a refresher course!!!

I did tell my client, after, exactly what I felt I had done wrong; and that Marty had taught me techniques that work better!

[Marty McGee Bennett]

I feel certain that you did the best you could and that is really important to remind yourself of when it doens't go just exactly the way you want it to. Bottle fed animals are almost always the hardest animals to work with when it comes to management. I am not really sure why this is. It doesn't seem to matter if the bottle raised animal ends up behaving like a puppy dog or aloof as you describe your animal. It also isn't necessarily linked to aggression or gender. Eventually bottle raised animals often become very difficult to handle. I think this is often true of anything bottle raised-- cats, puppies, horses.

[Nancy Woodward]

Thanks for encouraging words, Marty. Rushing the alpacas is clearly counterproductive! I did toe trimming at the seminar, and have read and watched your work. But when I have help, I sometimes rush--and then feel like I've set my program back even if we accomplished the task. What I failed to do yesterday was to release the hold on struggling alpacas, to allow them to relax and try again to balance, even though I know that the harder you hold, the more resistance is created. The best trained alpacas do know how to balance and to allow their feet to rest lightly in my hands. I need to help the more frightened ones to learn balance so they can be trusting enough to do that. Grasping harder just increases the fear and the fight--they learn nothing but to fear and to fight.

Also, doing shots and toes on the same day is counterproductive. Again, for me to own 45 alpacas, when I do not have adequate, regular help, isn't good for them or me. Better to have fewer, and treat them with more respect and compassion.

[Marty McGee Bennett]

Well that is for sure. I figure that everyone two and four legged starts out with a cup of tolerance and it is better to use it wisely because when it is gone it is gone until the next day or sometimes a week later? So when I do toenails it is only toenails! And when my cup (sometimes teaspoon) of tolerance is gone it is back to the house for a cuppa!