Very hummy cria

[drumgerry]

Hi all

This is my first post here though I've been a fan of Marty's methods for about 5 years and have tried to use them since we got our llamas and alpacas. Attended a two day workshop with Julie Taylor Browne last year as well which was amazing and verging on life-changing. Now I want to become a practitioner but that's for the future.

Anyway.....

What I came on to ask about was this: we have a female cria who is extremely attached to her mother. If there are humans around and she isn't in immediate contact with her she hums and hum-clucks (does anyone else recognise that sound?). She's about 7 months old and unweaned (we don't wean our female crias and prefer to let the mothers do it naturally if possible).

So last week we started the first stages of halter training. She wasn't keen to say the least. Much humming and attempts to cush. The first lesson lasted less than 5 minutes and consisted of stroking with the wand and catching her in a loop of the catch rope but not clipping it around her neck.

The second lesson (yesterday) consisted of a little more of the same but with the catch rope clipped and a few T-touches on the ears and on the top of the head. The latter did seem to relax her a bit and the humming dipped in intensity!

What I wanted to ask was - is this too much too soon for her and should we step it back a bit? If so step it back to what as I'm not sure where the step below is in the process from what I'm already doing?

I suspect it might have been easier if we'd started this earlier than 7 months but she was just as hummy then and I wouldn't wanted to have stressed her overmuch when she was tiny. Still she might have adapted quicker to it all.

Oh and I forgot to say that she is drop dead gorgeous with a fleece to die for and we thought we might show her!!

Thanks in advance

Gerry Thompson
Coire Alpacas and Llamas
Scotland

[hilaryc]

Hi Gerry,
I am looking forward to my first clinic with Julie next month - am looking forward to it.

Just couple of thoughts - though I am certainly not taking from practical knowledge as yet!

Was she next to her mum when you started the haltering process you described? CAn you stroke her with the wand, from the other side of mum , in a small catch pen? What is she like if you stroke, halter etc her mum in the catch pen with her loose? Does that cause her to cush/ get more stressed?
As soon as she relaxed a little., did you stop, and perhaps give her a big reward by leaving ( ie removing you proximity)? How big is her "comfort bubble"/space around her , if she is loose , and you are in the pen?

As well as the haltering, perhaps you could work on the separation from mum ( with no humans around ). I don't mean weaning but separating in 2 pens - keeping cria with herd, and putting mum other side of pen wall ( provided environment is safe) for a few minutes at a time ( perhaps with some tasty hay etc). when cria is settled , you could work with some of the other alpacas in the herd within the pen, completely ignoring her. This would work on the separation with humans present, whilst the wand work etc, when she is next to mum works on the closer contact in a more secure environment.
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Would be interested in any one else's suggestions . I used to make great use of feedtime with my foal, I would put mum and foal in one stable, lead mum to stable next doo ( interconnecting bars so foal could see her). Mum would eat her tea, and foal would stand up on carpetcovered bales next to partition to be near mum initially ( this was her first introduction to a pedestal!) As soon as mum had had her tea, foal would go back to her - and get her reward ( though she got lots of scritches from me) - her convenient milk bar back!

Cheers
Hilary
( North Yorkshire)

[Marty McGee Bennett]

Here are few suggestions for you:
It isn't too early. If you have other young animals you might work this gal with them in a group. It may not be a good idea to work her with her mother different animals would probably be better particularly if her mother is protective. You wouldn't want to work with her alone though so if your only choice is mom then by all means mom it is.
I don't stroke with the wand much. I find that with fleece animals it is more distracting and ticklish than useful.
You might want to do a bit more in each lesson most of the time going slowly only makes the animals more apprehensive about what you are up to.
If you have not tried the handler (halter helper) that may be a good way to go. I usually work with weanlings in a large group in the catch pen 4-6 of them or I will use other trained animals just to take up space and then work with each one in turn, catch using the midline catch put the handler helper on, do a bit of TTouch on the face, ears, mouth. That is lesson one, the next lesson is a repeat of that and I put the halter on. Next lesson I will attach the lead to the halter give some signals inside the pen, I might do that twice then it is out in the laneway for the next lesson and finally out to a larger area with some obstacles. The process usually doesn't involve more than about an hour to an hour and a half total time over two to three weeks. It is fine to leave 4-5 days between lessons. I wouldn't work every day every other day is the most I will ask of them.
If you are not able to work at this pace-meaning getting the tasks I have described completed in a ten-15minute lesson. I suggest that you practice on trained animals until you are more fluent with the method. Working with young animals requires that you be able to go faster because they are naturally more nervous and when an animal is nervous it DOES NOT work to go more slowly.
One comment about the idea of reward when it comes to putting a halter on... in this context since you are really not asking for a behavior that in generated by the animal.. in other words you are putting the halter on I would not think reward but encouragement- encouragement is given regardless of the behavior you get and isn't withheld if the animal doesn't do what you want. You don't want to think of rewarding an animal by stopping something or leaving. We want the animal to like and understand what we are doing and to enjoy our presence.
When working with babies it is really important to make the whole process interesting and low key for them which is why shorter lessons without much time between steps are better. I hope that helps.

[Nancy Woodward]

Is your hummy little friend by chance a suri? Just asking, because my suris seem to be more hummy than my huacayas. I find that under most circumstances, taking the humming with a bit of laughter is better than worrying too much...or even being excessively considerate. Every alpaca is a unique individual, but my hummy suri gals have been of dominant females and are dominant themselves. First to the feed dish, pushy, healthy as all get out. God bless their noisy little selves!